This is the final part of the transcription of the Manley/Kurtz/Rosenberg podcast. It is also where the questions got a little, um, slightly fiercer.

JM = Joey Manley
SK = Scott Kurtz
SR = Scott Rosenberg

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JM: One of the things that I’ve seen you say, and you’re very proud of this, apparantly, is that you’re one of the few places that is open for any submission from any creator at any time. Is that correct?

SR: Yeah, it could be the strongest bestselling creator and it can be an aspiring creator, as long as generally speaking we’d like to see that they can write something. But, yeah.

JM: So what’s the difference in your everyday ongoing over the transom submission handling and this contest. Why would a creator be more …. Is this purely for promotional … are you not getting enough submissions, Scott? Why have the contest at all if you’re always seeking these kinds of things. Is this deal different if you win this contest than if you’re just Joe Blow creator who submits something?

SR: We get plenty of submissions. Our publicist came up with the idea. I’d like to say I was the brilliant one who came up with the idea, but I didn’t. Our publicist came up with the idea. I saw it in one of the memos that goes by, but I didn’t really think it would happen, wasn’t paying much attention. They talked to NBC San Diego and it started happening, seemed like a fun thing to do. We would end up seeing things probably from a lot of people who wouldn’t otherwise submit, because maybe their ideas are you know not baked enough. So we thought it would be fun from that standpoint, and just fun to do this kind of comic challenge. This is actually the first comic contest to hit broadcast TV. It was interesting. NBC San Diego wanted a nice marketing thing around the comic-con; they’re willing to do the contest. We think it’s really cool to offer creators a chance to join something like this and we guarantee the winner certain things.

SK: That is nice. So, the question was, how is the prize for this contest any different from what you get if you just submit and Platinum likes it?

SR: Well, if someone is voted number one by the public, whether or not we like the comic, whether or not we would have otherwise accepted it as a submission and acquired it, we are guaranteeing to publish it and to develop it for other media. When someone submits to us on a regular basis, which by the way are all the same forms, same contracts, we evaluate it based on whether we want it, whether or not we want to do something with it, and if we like it then we offer them the appropriate contracts.

SK: So even if you, Scott, hate it, but it wins the contest, then you guys are going to publish it anyway.

SR: That’s our guarantee in the contest.

SK: Okay, so that’s the part of the prize that’s different.

SR: Yeah.

SK: And when you say you’re going to publish it as a comic, is that as a graphic novel, or an ongoing series, or I mean …

SR: That’s totally going to depend on the kind of property that’s pitched. I mean, to give you some examples, if someone were pitching Road to Perdition to us, it feels more like a graphic novel. If someone were pitching something that really feels episodic, it should be a comic series. If it’s something that really is told in one issue, it can be a one-shot. I mean we really have to make that decision based on looking at the property, talking to the creator, because we don’t want to, we don’t want to force the wrong thing on the market.

JM: Here’s a question, then, relating to that. It’s very, very easy now for individual creators to get their work in print. You can go to Lulu.com, you can go to comixpress …

SR: Yeah, and I’m sure that there will be more and more of those popping up.

JM: Right. So what’s the difference in doing that, and having you publish it? Are there guarantees of a print run, what kind of distribution deal is in place to make sure this gets out to the public? How much marketing and promotion are you going to be doing for the work? You know, those kinds of things are the things that a publisher really brings to the table, and it seems to me that those are the most beneficial reasons to sign with a company like Platinum, if they are going to happen.

SR: Are you talking about in general, or the winner?

JM: The winner.

SR: Okay. So I just wanted to be very specific, since you’re asking specific questions. The comic book will be distributed through Diamond. Our relationship is such that we don’t need to worry about the minimum orders. It will be marketed substantially online at lots of sites. It will be publicized by our retained PR agency, which means it costs some number of thousands of dollars to do that. We would basically highlight, wherever we can, hey this is the contest winner, this is the comic. It’s you know it will be publicity at the time, and we will play that up. And what am I missing from your list of questions there? We got distribution, marketing, PR …

SK: So yeah, you’re going through Diamond, and you don’t have to worry about minimum orders like a self-publisher would have to.

SR: Right. And by the way, the reason we don’t have to worry about that, aside from the fact that I’m personal friends with Geppi and all that, but let’s just say that for whatever reason they could never waive a policy. We’ll just guarantee orders so that it makes it over the minimum. I mean that’s just that’s part of our whole guarantee on this thing.

JM: Let me ask you this, then. If the property is good enough to win this contest, wouldn’t it also be good enough to take to Dark Horse or Image, and what is the advantage that Platinum offers over those two, just for example.

SR: Sure. If somebody knows they’re going to win, maybe it’s fine to go to Image or Dark Horse or somebody else. Probably what they’re getting paid from us is about what they’d get paid from them. Well Image, I mean they’d have to pay money, too, to put it out. But Image is fantastic. So if someone knew they were going to win, no reason not to pitch it to them. In fact, there’s no reason for anybody not to pitch whatever they’re going to put into this contest to any number of other publishers if they want. We never care about being first, it’s not an issue to us. So they can get passed on by everybody, realize, okay, they have nothing to lose, and put it in the contest. Not a problem for us at all. Does that answer the question?

JM: It does and it doesn’t. I mean, one of the concerns I have, as a writer. I don’t write comics but I am a writer. Is ownership of what I do. I mean, my book was published by St. Martin’s Press, a considerably larger company than any of the publishers we have mentioned in this entire conversation, and they have no ongoing rights to my work, and they have no interest in acquiring those. They also didn’t publicize it very well, they didn’t market it very well, and it didn’t do very well, but that’s neither here nor there.

SR: That actually is here nor there. I mean that helps.

JM: My concern is that, in an era when someone like Scott Kurtz, or Gabe and Tycho, the creators of Penny-Arcade, or the guy who does MegaTokyo, Fred Gallagher, in an era when they can build their own business, make their own living, without giving any of their ownership of their work to anybody — why sell your rights at such an early stage, because this contest is clearly marketed at quote unknown unquote creators who don’t really have the kind of leverage that say a Scott Kurtz …

SK: Frank Cho …

SR: Well every creator has certain choices and we actually are always happy to step them through it. If somebody is in talks with us and they want to know how they can make more money doing it themselves, we’re happy to tell them exactly how they can go to the studios and the whole bit and make more money because we’re not involved. The truth is that it’s not an easy procedure for them, but we’re very happy to explain it. In terms of a creator who’s starting out, a lot of people need help moving things along, they may have faith, and they may be able to have the resources to build it up on their own, and if that’s the case then they end up being Scott Kurtz. But the fact is that with thousands and thousands of webcomics, they’re not all going to be in the top ten. There’s a lot of creators who have sidejobs and can’t really spend the time to start self publishing, and don’t want to take the risk. And it is a risk, even if you go to Lulu. I mean, if you don’t market it, no one’s going to hear about it, there’s, I mean, there’s stuff. So you have to market it, you may want to go to a convention and take a table, that’s going to infringe upon your job. Some people may not want to do what Scott Kurtz has done. They may not want to spend the time to do it. They may want to have help, which is something that we provide, and we very clearly explain our deal, and how it works, and you know, maybe the second time around they don’t want to work with and they want to go do something differently.

SK: Right.

SR: Does that, did that specifically hit on the head what you were asking?

SK: I think what Joey’s getting at is, I mean I understand where you’re coming from, Scott, I really do. And I think that that’s why the contest says you couldn’t have been in print before, because you’re looking for unknowns that you’re going to be able to bring to the table who can accomplish something that they wouldn’t be able to on their own. I’m not, I mean, that, there’s a reason why the PvP comic, you know when I was self-publishing the PvP comic I was lucky to sell 1500 copies of it, and the same comic sold through Image, because of their market penetration I can sell 7 or 8 thousand copies of it.

SR: Yeah, that’s why I was saying Image is fantastic.

SK: So it makes sense to hook up with somebody that can provide or bring something to the table that you can’t do on your own. So there is a difference. But when the two biggest creators in the market that do allow creator-owned properties to come through them don’t acquire the rights to the property, you know, like Image does not acquire your rights, Dark Horse — I think Dark Horse does –

SR: Dark Horse does except if it’s a licensed item. Image, though, the creator is responsible for to pay Image fees and to cover losses of the book.

SK: Well.

JM: Yeah and the TokyoPop deal if I understand it correctly it’s that TP acquires 50% of the copyright of your work and even that deal was causing a lot of squawking among some fairly known people in the webcomics industry — no, comics industry.

SR: The TokyoPop deal is 60/40. Yeah, basically, TokyoPop controls.

JM: Oh really? I was under the impression that it was 50/50. I guess what I’m getting at is, I understand the need for help, in a world where there’s all the other options what is special about Platinum that makes it worth giving away 100% of the rights, when even TokyoPop …

SR: Well it’s not 100%, there is participation …

SK: Hold on, hold on, you do acquire 100% of the rights.

SR: Yeah, we, yes. Correct.

SK: Okay.

JM: But you own the rights. They participate in the deal, but you own the rights. Which is what I was saying, I mean that’s all I meant. So TokyoPop 60/40, okay, but I see TokyoPop comics at the Walgreen’s two blocks from my house. I’ve never seen a Platinum Studios comic at the Walgreen’s; I’ve never seen a Platinum comic anywhere. So what is it about Platinum that’s particularly special, and that’s all ..

SK: You know, lots of people acquire rights, I mean even Dark Horse … but Dark Horse has a history in the last decade of publishing comics … so there is a, you know, there’s a benefit … and they do pay an advance. I mean, I, look, I did work for Dark Horse, I did a 8-page story for Star Wars Tales, and they paid me an advance and a page rate, and I used some of it to pay the colorist, and that’s the last of it I’ll ever see. I mean, they’ll print that in trades from now until eternity and I’ll never see another dime. But I knew going into it what the deal was.

SR: See, but that’s actually a great point. Walking in with eyes wide open. We like spelling everything out to a creator. When we start talking contracts to a creator, we strongly suggest that they talk to a lawyer, other creators, we actually will circle the clauses that generally speaking they’ll be the most interested in looking at, we tell them the clauses that form a boilerpoint perspective with studios that we just can’t change. We believe in eyes wide open is absolutely the right way. You were dealing with Dark Horse, you knew you weren’t getting anything else.

SK: But that’s fine because it was the opportunity to do a Star Wars story in an officially licensed Star Wars book.

SR: Absolutely. It’s passion.

SK: But with PvP I’m not going to sign that kind of a deal because it’s my –

SR: You don’t need to.

SK: Right.

SR: You’ve already, you’ve reached the level where you don’t need to do that.

SK: Correct.

JM: But that’s the point, Scott. You’re talking about working for Dark Horse, you’re talking about working on Star Wars, you’re not talking about working on Captain Amazing. You’re not talking about PvP.

SK: No, right right. I would never take any of my properties anywhere but Image. The deal at Image is too good. They are happy with PvP and that’s why I’m able to do Justin, and why they’re willing to print the trade of Captain Amazing because the way the deal works at Image is very different from other publishers. Just like Dark Horse they pay upfront for the publishing and production of the comic and then after the money comes in from the profits of the book they take back that printing cost they take away the fee, and then you get the rest. So there’s no money up front like a Dark Horse deal, but, you know, all the back end is yours.

SR: We give money up front. We. There’s some other. First of all, we love Image, we suggest that people go there all the time. We suggest people go to Dark Horse. Truth is, we may like something they don’t like. That is one end of it that makes a difference. Also, whenever we exploit, so to speak, the properties in different areas there’s always a back-end that goes to the creators, there’s always royalties, standard industry royalties on the books, we have mobile distribution deals so that we can attach to the creator’s website a mobile store where they can attach whatever kind of moving images or wallpaper or slide images that they want, or video as long as it’s short enough that it actually fits on a phone. We have a lot of services and things to offer that not everybody else has. We have tastes that not everybody else has. Not that ours are better than someone else, we just we have different kind of tastes. It’s likely that what we like, Dark Horse won’t like. We’ve actually never gotten into a bidding war with Dark Horse or Image. We always seem to like different things. And again, we don’t care if someone wants to shop it around to every publisher on the planet before we see it. That’s completely irrelevant to us. So some may want to come to us as a last pitch. Others may like it because we have professional editors that will give them help on the book that way and because we have publicists that will help publicize the book. I mean, we were in the New York Times a few days ago. So there’s a lot of services that we offer. We’re not a few-man operation. We have people at the studios, at the agencies, all the time, we have a mobile division, we have a new media division. There’s really a lot of things that we offer.

JM: Let me ask you this, then, Scott, and I don’t mean to be rude, I really I swear I’m not just trying to be a jerk …

SR: I believe you.

JM: I look at the Platinum Studios website, and Scott Kurtz and I as part of the research for this show, we went back to the, it’s called the Wayback Machine …

SR: I like that machine.

JM: It’s on archive.org and you can look at a website … so there were projects on there that you announced in 2002 as coming soon that, four years later, are exactly the same web page. And these aren’t movie deals. These are webcomics. Electronic comics for Dylan Dog, for

SK: Or Slackerman or Barry Ween …

JM: It’s not hard to put up a webcomic … why is it taking so long, four years, just to put up a webcomic?

SR: You mean the electronic comics, is that what you’re talking about?… the ones with audio/video and moving images? I’m happy to send you guys a backdoor link … we actually have made them, and are in production. We’re going to launch them at the appropriate time. The comics, we’ve made some strong decisions about how we want to launch them. So we’re going to do that when we’re ready. We’ve never solicited with Diamond saying we’re going to be shipping something on x date so there’s been no letting down the stores, or taking money out of other publisher’s pockets. We’ve been pretty deliberate in our actions. And in 2000, when we first thought that the web would go to where the web is now, we were planning certain things, and a couple of years later, now that it is where it is now, we are waiting for where it needs to be, and all those numbers are real, we know exactly what we need to do. So we.

JM: I want to just emphasize the reason I’m asking that question is in the context of what you are bringing to the table to the winners of this contest, because if you’re telling me you’re going to publish my comic, and you have those mobile deals, and I don’t see any evidence of that actually happening on your website, and I see that you have these long-term things hanging out there …

SR: We haven’t made the announcement about the mobile deals yet. We haven’t made that official.

JM: But you just publicly stated it in the podcast, right? You give it as an example of why someone would want to win this contest, and the reality of it is … how real can a prospective ..

SK: You can understand our trepidation, is what we’re saying … Comic Book Resources had that contest recently, and the prizes for Comic Book Idol were tangible, specific things from companies with a history in the past decade of publishing … you know, one was a pin-up in an upcoming IDW book. Completely and 100% possible and tangible, it’s not difficult to believe that IDW could provide a pin-up page. One of the prizes was that Eric Stephenson would write a story that would appear in an upcoming anthology, and I look at that, I see that anthology came out. You know. And that story was in there. Image has a ten year history of publishing comics. So these are tangible things that we can go and see. So like I said at the beginning of the podcast, and I’m starting to feel like we’re beating up, or ganging up on you, but the whole purpose of this podcast, and I think the reason why some of my questions have been pointed, is that I want to illustrate that, you know, a creator that is in webcomics, who maybe does not have an established property, or established success, they can ask these questions, and not be afraid that someone like Platinum — like, look. You’re answering all these questions, and you’re not upset, and it doesn’t make you any less interested in the properties. I think a lot of creators feel that this is their one chance, and if they ask a question, or they say I don’t like this, or I would rather discuss this more, that, you know, someone like Platinum’s going to say, well, screw you, it’s off the table now. And that’s not the case. They can ask questions. They can get representation. They can discuss things. Even if things get a little heated because everyone has different opinions, it’s not going to destroy the opportunity.

SR: Right. We have a track record of talking things totally out and explaining things to creators, and other than a contest where we have no choice we don’t throw deadlines like sign by Monday or else. We just don’t do that.

SK: Right.

JM: I totally don’t mean to be confrontational. I spent a lot of time before this podcast scolding and lecturing Mr. Scott Kurtz about how we needed to be calm and to not get all heated up … and here I am, I’m the bad guy. I’m sorry, Scott Rosenberg.

SR: You know, Scott Kurtz, I’ve heard all these things about you [laughs]

SK: You know why? That’s because you heard things from unpopular webcomics creators probably that are happier to consider me an asshole because it makes them feel better than if they know what I’m really about. But yeah, it makes me feel great to know that my first impression that you had of me was that I was some kind of nutbag. It’s going around. I understand it’s going around.

SR: I know it from a source that was there was a blog and they said that …

JM: Who could that have been, I wonder, hmm……. [laughs]

SK: Right. Exactly.

JM: You don’t know the history of me and Kurtz, Scott Rosenberg, but …

SR: Hey I know that it’s quite possible that I brought you two together …

SK: You did. But we’re going to fight again. I’ll hate him next week.

[everybody laughing]

SR: Let me answer those questions head on. When we hire creators, to do comics, we contract with them, we pay them, all the different creators you see on the site have been and are being paid as they turn in work. We have certain deals in Hollywood, a lot of them have been announced, where studios want us to hold up releasing a comic pending marketing situations. Which, you know, is not a big deal. Looking at the people on the panel, who all know us, and who know what we’re doing and why we’re doing it, things that we may not want to publicly announce, we have People Magazine, we have Gale Ann Hurd, Marc Silvestri who I’ve known since 1992, he knows that I’ve never gone back on my word, handshake or contract, in all of that time, you know, one of the Image guys. They all know what we’re doing, how we’re doing it, and, I mean if you just, if you look at it crassly, I would put the book out through Top Cow, I mean it’s really not, it’s really not an issue — no pun intended on issue, of course –

SK: meh

SR: But when we make a promise, we make a promise. And our first print comic that has Platinum Studios on the label, which most of ours aren’t, because we really don’t care, is going to be coming out in December. And in about a month, I could be a month off, we are going to be making announcements about our other titles, specifically what we’re doing. Some things that I think you guys would be happy about, but who knows? You could yell at me, too.

SK: Ha! We’ll be watching.

JM: And that’s December of 2006?

[laughter]

SR: Yes, and there I’m stating a date. It’s not an editor stating a date, it’s the chairman of the company.

JM: Okay.

SK: We need to wrap this one up, though because I’m going to have to go. I think it’s interesting all the way through, though..

JM: Okay well we’ll schedule our next podcast with you for December of 2006.

SR: Hey Scott, are you interested — I’d have to run it by NBC San Diego but would you be interested in being on our panel?

SK: No. But thanks.

This entry was posted on Friday, June 30th, 2006 at 8:42 pm and is filed under Podcast. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.